Philosophical debates about languages

[Кая З]

It's not difficult to expand this list. There are words in my mind like "lead, head, bring around, course, trek". This list will be more huge. But I don't think it's good idea to translate each word from one language to another. Maybe it needs felling the distinguish between meanings of the words.

I don’t mean to translate the words, I suggest to you to “sense” deference of this ones and wealth of English also.
And it would be true to say “huger”.

I see, Сергей. Through the reading of my books I could understand the matter of "wealth of English". When I've read your list, I could not recognize some words, like frisk, gambol and vault, but it didn't embarrassed me much. Maybe I mistake, but it seems to me that English lexical realm is more rich then Russian. Oh, I suddenly remembered absolutely hilarious word at your list, it is "waddle", but I looked up it in dictionary for correct spelling. See you latter.

[Мэттью]

Some great observations on the wealth of English as well as that of Russian. Based upon what I've seen in both languages, they each have their own uniquenesses that make them the perfect complements to one another. Russian has an amazing amount of flexibility when it comes to where the actors can stand on the stage, i.e. the nouns can stand over here or over there, or whereverthehecktheywant, the same with verbs, adjectives, and so on; whereas in English, oy, the stage director is a strict and stodgy sort of fellow, only alllowing a bit of variance amongst his actors before he loses his temper, tears his script asunder, and marches right out the emergency exit, refusing to come back until everyone takes his or her proper place.

So, while English is indeed easier in terms of fewer cases within its grammatical system, it makes up for such things in other ways. (I won't mention phrasal verbs here, as I don't want to be pelted with tomatoes or worse)

Shall we talk about English's ability of "verbing" nouns, i.e. when nouns mysteriously transform into verbs? I remember the first time I heard some computer security experts telling me with dire urgency in their voices, "We're going to have to firewall that." Hmmmm...

[Н.Ф.]

The first shot is fired, the battle has begun, gentlemen! The audience is holding its breath...

[Сергей Кевлар]

The more we learn the less we know. So, I am going to rest but keep reading the "Harry Potter" forth book, it is so interesting to

[Мэттью]

A very wise observation...The deeper into the forest we walk, the more we realize how vast that forest is, and how we could spend a lifetime there and just begin to tap into the great well of mysteries...

[Сергей Кевлар]

I have just returned home from taiga. It was one hundred km trip along the forest road up to mountainside. To understand our opens one has to see them, because it is thousands km of forest (taiga) in any directions, and human present takes place along the roads only.
As road allows us to go through forest as the matrix guides us thought labyrinth of language.

[Кая З]

...
Shall we talk about English's ability of "verbing" nouns, i.e. when nouns mysteriously transform into verbs? I remember the first time I heard some computer security experts telling me with dire urgency in their voices, "We're going to have to firewall that." Hmmmm...

It's not very strange. I don't think "to firewall" is weird verb. When some young Russian programmers in Russia want to use terms "to check out" and "to check in" then they can say newly slang words like "отчековать" and "зачекинить". And therefore in accordance with the verb "to firewall" they can easy say like "зафареволить". Maybe it's about on bad point but it doesn't matter now, because they've been using and will be using these terms.

[Сергей Кевлар]

I don’t want to give an appraisal of this phenomenon; I mean the word formation like we can see above, but this one take place everywhere and spread widely. In my opinion, the phrases: “Наши чилдренята играют на стриту” and "зафареволить" are both examples of the rude ruin of great languages, but it is because my teachers have taught me to keep ones and to use them accurately, so I try to.

[Пушистая няшечка2]

Derivation is inevitable, whether we like it or not. One time there were some persons who, being strongly against French words in Russian speech, insisted on saying "мокроступы" instead of "галоши"... Nowadays it looks quite funny. There are also situations when foreign speech is always around and you get used to it so much, that keeping your language pure is very difficult. For example, in my work I deal with databases every day, and all the applications have English interface, i.e. buttons that say 'OK' and 'Cancel' and so on. That's why it's much easier for me to say: "Рестарт делай", "Кансел жми" than remember Russian equivalents like "перезагружай" or "отменяй", in addition, the first version is more compact. But (thanks to our wonderful school system) there is, alas! quite a lot of individuals who pronounce 'Cancel' like 'Sun cell' or 'СансЭл'... now this really drives me mad...

[Пушистая няшечка2]

It's a known fact, that English is quite abstract and more laconic language than Russian. Try to translate 'Tastes differ' into Russian literally - it will sound very poor. I think, as Russian has more complex grammar, in order to sound good, it needs to be expressed in more complex way, too. I've read 'Mutation' by Robin Cook and 'Are you afraid of the dark?' by Sidney Sheldon, both the authors write in easy phrases and it was a pleasant reading, but their Russian variants seemed to me so silly... May be the translators were bad, or I am such a quibbler.
What is interesting, there are contrary examples. I like 'Mary Poppins' in Russian more, and books by sir Conan Doyle and H.G. Wells as well. I just don't feel the same atmospere and beauty of the language, as it was while reading Russian versions.
In fact, English is not so simple as it may seem. What really scares me is the aforesaid phrasal verbs, and slang - many variations of slang... You can think you have learned English well, as you hear the phrase 'He is a cool cat' and all the words are very well known- but the meaning?!

[Сергей Кевлар]

I want to remark on comparison these languages here.
I heard many years ago one’s opinion that language could determine the whole fortune of nation and on mature reflection I had agreed with it.

It's a known fact, that English is quite abstract and more laconic language than Russian.

As we speak as we thought. English is more strong and logical therefore Englishmen have more rational thinking and more organized life instead of Russian having free language and therefore I’d say anarchical or disorderly thinking and life.

In fact, English is not so simple as it may seem. What really scares me is the aforesaid phrasal verbs, and slang - many variations of slang...

On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other hand one can learn informal English easier because of absence of case, conjugation and other crammer difficulties taking place in Russian. And it is a main reason that English get (obtain) the role of international language, although Spain have been the great conqueror in the Middle Ages too, but I’d say Spanish is more difficult to speak then English.

[Пушистая няшечка2]

As we speak as we think. English is more strong and logical therefore Englishmen have more rational thinking and more organized life instead of Russians having free language and therefore I’d say anarchical or disorderly thinking and life.

You must be a wise man. I don't know social sciences well enough to discuss this subject, but I think that our anarchical living is not too bad, as it gives us wide freedom for creativity in everyday life. I've heard it not one time, that a Russian would have to be bored in Europe.

On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other hand one can learn informal English easier because of absence of case, conjugation and other crammer difficulties taking place in Russian. And it is a main reason that English get (obtain) the role of international language, although Spain have been the great conqueror in the Middle Ages too, but I’d say Spanish is more difficult to speak then English.

I also noticed that it is uneasy to start speaking Spanish, when you got used to English. But as I love this language very much, I think when I start learning Spanish seriously I will just enjoy the process.

By the way, nowadays we often hear that China's economics is rapidly rising up and Chinese is going to become the second common language all over the world. Can anyone imagine that? Despite the simple grammar (more simple than English one) - remembering at least 3000 of different pictures is not an easy job for a general human's brain. I won't even mention musical intonation. Also it has plenty of homophones - words that sound equal but the meaning is impossible to guess without context. Looks like it's easier for all two billions Chineses to learn English...)

[Сергей Кевлар]

I don’t think Chinese is more difficult then European, it is another one simply. Friend of mine sends his son to China to get education for years ago. The son learnt Chinese two years and then he got special subjects, as any Chinese student.
Two years ago his sister graduate Russian university and got Shanghai too. In a half year she could speak and understand Chinese and now she got a well-qualified and well-paid job there. I’d say she could speak English perfectly.
And most of Chinese specialists and managers know English well; I can’t imagine another thing if the whole country uses foreign technology and know-how.
And “musical intonation” is more important and harder to hear in Japanese then Chinese.

[Пушистая няшечка2]

erm..... I am afraid I don't understand the last statement...

Japanese does have its special intonation, it's true. But you can say the same about English, German, Russian, etc., whereas Chinese is an example of tonal language, and here it's crucial. If you pronounce the same syllable in high-pitched voice, or low-pitched voice, or trembling voice, its meaning will convert from mother to horse, from cat to hair...) Same goes for Cantonese and Vietnamese.

I don't think that copying Japanese intonation is something crazy difficult... First it was hard to hear and make out, to tell nothing about copying. But later - at the second, third dialog... - I got used to. Unfortunately I don't know any native who could estimate my speech, so I try to control myself using all my intuition.

Concerning Japanese language, it's awfully abstract. They don't say 'It's the first time I ever eat sushi'. They say 'About sushi, it's the first time'. I think it fully reflects their way of thinking. They like being indefinite, they never say 'Yes' but 'Well, maybe, kind of'... Also a Japanese would rather die than say 'No', but when he starts to tell you that he will necessarily think upon your request, and he will necessarily inform you in a few days, you can be sure it's a refuse. I won't mention expressions like 'Dozo yoroshiku' or 'Onegai-shimasu' - it's too long to explain the deep sense of those...

Japanese grammar is not hard to learn - they don't have genders, grammatic numbers, and there is far less tenses than in English. What is difficult for me, it is politeness. Very many polite expressions, depending on the age, social state, gender of the one you are talking to... Also there is a funny thing, it's the particles men use to make their speech more strong, and the ones women use to make it more soft. I've read about one man from west who learned Japanese from a young girl and simply copied her speaking manner, and later it caused laughter of natives. Like a man would say in Russian: "Ну, я пошла"

[Пушистая няшечка2]

As Russian is not very popular language to learn, sometimes abroad it's treated quite sloppy. Why so much worry? anyway anyone won't understand anything. %)

Have you seen the films 'Simona' and, say, 'The Truman Show'? In both there is a moment when the main character becomes a celebrity and all the newspapers of the world write about him/her. I can't estimate all the versions, but when I saw "Гроза разгрозилась"... "Russian" newspapers were like this, through and through. How many years should a professional translator learn a language to stop making such mistakes?

In 'Terminal' by Steven Spielberg: the main character comes from a nonexistent republic Krakozia, and as far as I remember, his native language is said to be Romanian. But the book he is reading in one episode is Russian... Also he helps to one passenger who speaks the purest Russian (the actor is from our country).

In 'Borat': all the so-called "Kazakh" opening and ending titles are either Russian, or simply the result of typing the same words in the Latin layout, when a keyboard is switched to Cyrillic. =) Was it made intentionally, to produce a comic effect, or only because of the impossibility to overcome laziness and go consult natives?

'Frida' is quite better. Russian language appears in some episodes with Leo Trotsky and his wife. Although the actors aren't natives and therefore speak with accent, texts are absolutely grammatically correct.

In one episode of 'X-files' Mulder is sent to Krasnoyarsk and the Russians whom he meets there are really Russians. But what amazed me, a woman who lives in the forest, is quite good at English. It was no problem for her to switch from Russian to English when speaking to the FBI agent. Most our city-livers are incapable of this.

Speaking of this subject, I also remember 'A Clorkwork Orange' book by A. Burgess. I don't know why Russian words are used as a slang there, but at least each one's in the very proper place and it is nice.