Philosophical debates about languages

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Пушистая няшечка2
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Сообщение Пушистая няшечка2 »

Сергей Кевлар писал(а):I’ve been trying to explain the way I use to learn English.
Sergey, it may be not my business, but the description seems too short to me. It's quite hard to understand what is the method about. And you don't have to translate the book. Just say it in your words and they will get it, if they are ready to learn something new.

I'd say so:
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The shortest way to learn any foreign language is to begin with a so-called matrix. That is, 25-30 dialogs or other texts in this language, read by native and only native speakers. Other sounds in the dialogs are very undesirable. Speech only. If there are pauses between phrases more than one second long, they must be cut. What about the vocabulary of the dialogs? Simple, often used words, short phrases are good, especially if you are a novice. Emotional and expressive speech is desirable, but only positive emotions. If you are listening about something negative, even in the foreign language, it will influence your mind negatively, too.
A dialog should be 30-50 seconds long. It's an optimum size. Speed must be normal, as people speak in real life.
First, you listen to the first dialog, again and again, three hours a day. It may take two or three weeks. Why so much? Because our brain tries to detect the sounds of the foreign language using the basis of the sounds existing in our language. So, when you just begin, you don't really hear what you hear. And it takes time to detect everything correctly.
When you are sure you have heard everything, start to listen and simultaneously read the text with your eyes only. It will also take few days. Listen and read, until you can read each phrase as fast as you hear it.
After this, begin speaking, trying to exactly copy the pronunciation of the speakers. You can return to listening if needed. Do it until you can read the whole dialog with ease.
Having finished with the first dialog, come to the second, and so on.
Then loop all the dialogs and listen them, and listen, and listen. Then speak, and speak, and speak - from the first to the last. Three hours a day, about two months. Do it until this speaking will be as usual to you as, say, your cup of tea in the morning.
Working with all the matrix takes from half a year to year. It will give you basic vocabulary, as well as listening, reading and speaking skills. Now you are ready to improve your skills and broaden vocabulary through reading books and watching films.
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

Н.Ф. писал(а):The first stage is not reading, Sergey, the first stage is listening.
Абсолютно согласен. Но я пытался перевести отрывок из Вашей книги: параграф "Обратный резонанс и матрица", стр.15, последний абзац.
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

Пушистая няшечка писал(а):Sergey, it may be not my business, but the description seems too short to me.
I am so glad to receive a review about my opus. I should say there wasn’t enough time to finish the translation of the whole explanation and you get the incorrect notion of what I meant.
As I’ve said before it is difficult to translate it you are a pupil but it is harder to translate the book has been written by author with a good sense of humor. I tried to do it and I had to agree with you the best way to explain something was to paraphrase it.
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Сообщение Н.Ф. »

Сергей Кевлар писал(а):
Пушистая няшечка писал(а):Sergey, it may be not my business, but the description seems too short to me.
I am so glad to receive a review about my opus. I should say there wasn’t enough time to finish the translation of the whole explanation and you get the incorrect notion of what I meant.
As I’ve said before it is difficult to translate it you are a pupil but it is harder to translate the book has been written by author with a good sense of humor. I tried to do it and I had to agree with you the best way to explain something was to paraphrase it.
Yes, it's very difficult, that's why I don't do it myself. Besides, I'd have to completely re-write entire passages and chapters. So, I'd rather wait for someone to come along and do the translation for me. And I'll pay for it.

As for your translation, Sergey, it's pretty good. You've done a very good job.
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

No doubt a translator must have two very important skills or talents.
The first of all he is a good writer, as readership will not read a bored book. It should be noted any genius book can be spoiled by a bad translation; one can’t translate a text using word-by-word method because of different structure of languages.
The second skill is knowledge of both languages but in my opinion more important one is fluency in a language whereon is make the translation. I’d say it easy to translate into one’s native language. You can say one study foreign language the whole life and knows it perfectly well and can do this job perfectly; may be you are right and I don’t dispute this matter with you.
I read somewhere about books were written by Garcia Lorca and translated by our translators into Russian. Spanish students studying in People’s Friendship University used to say that Russian texts of the books was more interesting then Spanish because of the talent of our translators and, more important, the Russian rich language.
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Сообщение Пушистая няшечка2 »

Сергей Кевлар писал(а):I am so glad to receive a review about my opus. I should say there wasn’t enough time to finish the translation of the whole explanation and you get the incorrect notion of what I meant.
I see. You have done a hard job, indeed. I remember what a nightmare it was for me, a student - to translate from Russian into English. But this exercise really improved my speaking skill. In combination with reading books, of course.

As to the book, I guess that even a native can get headache trying to render its Russian humor. But as far as I can judge, the Spanish versionkept the humor and the beauty of the language all right. I really enjoy reading it. Though, of course, Spanish and Russian phrases have kind of different "smell".
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Сообщение Н.Ф. »

Пушистая няшечка писал(а):
Сергей Кевлар писал(а):I am so glad to receive a review about my opus. I should say there wasn’t enough time to finish the translation of the whole explanation and you get the incorrect notion of what I meant.
I see. You have done a hard job, indeed. I remember what a nightmare it was for me, a student - to translate from Russian into English. But this exercise really improved my speaking skill. In combination with reading books, of course.

As to the book, I guess that even a native can get headache trying to render its Russian humor. But as far as I can judge, the Spanish versionkept the humor and the beauty of the language all right. I really enjoy reading it. Though, of course, Spanish and Russian phrases have kind of different "smell".
The book was translated into Spanish by a Russian lady, who lived in Cuba for over 20 years. But more importantly, this preliminary translation was refined and polished by a Cuban journalist - a quite known journalist, actually - and author.
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

I should say I can’t image another method to learn foreign language successfully and quickly enough by man 50 years old.
In addition to it the method takes into account the man’s foibles, the laziness is more principal of them. To use a dictionary while one is lying on the sofa and reading detective story when comp set on the table is so lazy. Maximum I can do is using the pencil to mark an unknown word to translate it later.
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Ich habe keine Ahnung worüber ihr hier auf englisch sprecht , aber ich hätte gerne mit jemandem auf deutsch unterhalten. Walter?
- Голова всё может, давайте с самого начала... (из к/ф "Формула Любви")
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

To understand his own language one has to learn foreign one. It occurs to me often that I compare English and Russian during reading some books.

First of all I’d say English has no verbs where Russian has; for example: ill, tired, happy and many other actions may be described with adjectives and auxiliary verbs only (be ill, be tired and so on) in comparison with Russian can create any verbs to describe any actions.

Contrarily, English has more verbs to describe just one action; I mean synonyms.
Reading “Harry Potter” the book I have found out many words talking about a movement with legs and decided “to announce the whole of a list” here.

Walk, depart, stroll, wander, ramble, gad, rove, roam, straggle, stray, range, promenade, stride; skip, leap, jump, bound, spring, hop, frisk, caper, gambol, vault; dance, tiptoe; hurtle; glide, slip, slide; march, step, move, go, come; creep, crawl, steal.

Most of them I meet in the books I have been reading only, many of them are little-used, but it have been interested to know because of there another meaning. I have to say you can’t translate to Russian many of them by using one word, like “tiptoe”.

There are the verbs standing for a movement with legs here, no verbs like “drive and ride” and I hope you can probably add some more ones in the list.
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Сообщение Н.Ф. »

There's an American from California who wants to pose some probing questions about the Matrix method. So be ready to answer them, gentlemen. Be ready, for he may be coming for you...
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

Н.Ф. писал(а):There's an American from California who wants to pose some probing questions about the Matrix method. So be ready to answer them, gentlemen. Be ready, for he may be coming for you...
We have been learning with the method so I can't see any problem to answer any questions to any men.
Кая З
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Сообщение Кая З »

Сергей Кевлар писал(а): Walk, depart, stroll, wander, ramble, gad, rove, roam, straggle, stray, range, promenade, stride; skip, leap, jump, bound, spring, hop, frisk, caper, gambol, vault; dance, tiptoe; hurtle; glide, slip, slide; march, step, move, go, come; creep, crawl, steal.

Most of them I meet in the books I have been reading only, many of them are little-used, but it have been interested to know because of there another meaning. I have to say you can’t translate to Russian many of them by using one word, like “tiptoe”.

There are the verbs standing for a movement with legs here, no verbs like “drive and ride” and I hope you can probably add some more ones in the list.
It's not difficult to expand this list. There are words in my mind like "lead, head, bring around, course, trek". This list will be more huge. But I don't think it's good idea to translate each word from one language to another. Maybe it needs felling the distinguish between meanings of the words.
Сергей Кевлар

Сообщение Сергей Кевлар »

Кая З писал(а):It's not difficult to expand this list. There are words in my mind like "lead, head, bring around, course, trek". This list will be more huge. But I don't think it's good idea to translate each word from one language to another. Maybe it needs felling the distinguish between meanings of the words.

I don’t mean to translate the words, I suggest to you to “sense” deference of this ones and wealth of English also.
And it would be true to say “huger”.
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Сообщение Н.Ф. »

Сергей Кевлар писал(а):
Кая З писал(а):And it would be true to say “huger”.
More huge is OK, too.
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