Кая З писал(а):It's very bad idea. You shall write more the good posts. I don't like read long ones but not yours. I read your posts carefully and not one time. Yesterday, I have some troubles with my pots. After НФ's explanations it's clear now. I think you must return this long opus. The Fuzzy Majesty is the beam of light from the sky and I shall lay myself beneath her feet.
You make me feel awfully embarrassed)))))
I want you to post very much, and others too. It's so interesting to have a dialogue, not when it's only you and you...
I'll take a risk to have another try, but as no one can guarantee anything now, be ready to everything.)
Q: What's the reverse-resonance matrix?
A: It's set of audio dialogues or texts in the language your learn. What you are to begin with. You'll listen to them for a long time and then read aloud.
Q: Where can I get the dialogues for matrix?
A: From any existing course, taking into account the criteria given above.
Q: What's the purpose of working with matrix?
A: To help you create new linguistic center in your mind, to fight antagonizing of your mind, for it will suffer stress from the strange language and do everything to make you stop. To get basic skills for understanding by ear, reading and pronunciation. To analyze and assimil all the tiniest nuances of the language subconsciously. To get some beginning knowledge of words and grammar, and using that foundation, start building the "house" of your language. To feel free using the new language for all the rest of your life. To restore your language to active after long period of non-practice.
Q: How many dialogues should the matrix contain?
A: 20-30 for alphabetical language, and twice more for hieroglyphic one. This number was gotten by experience. While going further and further, you'll notice that effectivity becomes lower and lower, all the sounds and structures are familiar, so once you may stop and come to listening to all the dialogues you've passed, from beginning to the end.
Q: How long does it take to work over all the matrix?
A: Matrix can be completed in 6-8 months, may be less or more. Why such rough definition - people differ and languages differ, too.
Q: And how long does it take to become close to a native in your language skills?
A: Experience shows that it's 1-2 years. But exploring the real depth of language and all its nuances is an infinite process, and regarding your first language, it's also true.
Q: How much time a day should I give to language studies?
A: 3 hours is an optimum time. If you are sure you won't be tired, please study more.
Q: How can I find so many time for language learning?
A: By stopping watching TV, for example. Is there something so important? Playing computer games or surfing inet are also not necessary things to survive, at least for a year you can do without it. And what do you do in transport when you go to work or from work? All this time can be productively used. If you are a very busy person, you can find at least an hour. Who does search will find everything...
Q: How can I loop a dialogue?
A: Many mp3 players have the feature of replaying the same file again and again. If yours hasn't, use a sound editing program, like Audacity, and make a big file by repeating your dialogue for 20 minutes or something like that.
Q: May I divide my studies into few?
A: Yes, each session should be at least 20 minutes long.
Q: If I listen to a dialogue and want to sleep, does it mean I'm lazy or incapable?
A: No, it doesn't. Just a normal reaction of your brain to the same information repeating all the time. Fight sleeping by walking, it's very effective. You may also let yourself sleep a little, some people become more fresh and ready to study after this.
Q: Will the matrix teach me a foreign language?
A: No, it's not enough. Once matrix is completed, begin to read books with minimum dictionary, watch films, listen to radio - 3 hours a day as well. The best is to combine it. If listening is difficult, you may focus on reading, until your vocabulary is full enough to understand at least some words and phrases you hear.
Q: Will I be able to read with minimum dictionary, when I've just finished matrix?
A: At the first pages use dictionary as often as you need. Later you'll understand the main plot and it will be enough. Most often used words can be guessed from the context, and sometimes you may look up in the dictionary some words that interest you most of all. You may use an explanatory dictionary as an alternative to bilingual one. Also mind that writers usually like to write in more complicated language in the beginning of their novels. So you may begin from the 40th page and read pages 1-39 after reading all the book.
Q: What if I need only reading, and don't need speaking in the language?
A: In that case search for some other methods. Language is a complex system, reading is closely connected to writing, and speaking is closely connected to listening, etc. Matrix method is for those who don't want to limit themselves with one aspect of the language, but master the whole language.
Q: Which earphones should I use for listening to dialogues?
A: The best variant is big, soft, comfortable earphones, isolating noise coming from outside. Note that it will be difficult to hear cars while crossing the street, so pay twice more attention to the street in these moments. If you doubt you'd better not listen to dialogues while going on foot. For the same reason don't listen to the matrix while driving a car. Something will suffer - either the quality of listening, or the quality of driving, and it's just dangerous.
Q: Will the matrix work, if I already have some knowledge of the language?
A: Yes, it may help you greatly improve some aspects that schools usually don't pay attention to (for example, pronunciation).
Q: Should I listen to all the dialogues, then read them all...
A: No, it's very difficult and unproductive. Take the first one: listen it, follow with eyes, read aloud. Then come to the second... and so on. You'll loop all the dialogues only after working with each of them, at this stage you'll be ready to that, but in the beginning - no way.
Q: Is it necessary to loop all the dialogues and work with the whole matrix, after working with each dialogue?
A: It can help you to confirm your language basis, especially regarding grammatic rules. You may also sometimes return to matrix when reading, but not often.
Q: When it comes to reading, should I read every book aloud?
A: No, you'll almost certainly be tired soon. Just pronounce all the words in your mind, like you do when reading in your native language. Sometimes you may feel like reading some sentences in whisper of loud voice, don't hesitate to do it.
Q: Should I translate my dialogues and analyze their grammar?
A: Yes, of course. If there's no any prepared grammar comments, use any grammar guide or coursebook (the first usually contains more information). It's better to translate when you come to listening and following the text with your eyes, because when you only listen, you need to make out all the sounds, nothing more.
Q: Will I understand my matrix dialogue once I've translated it?
A: Yes and no. You can't fully understand any text in any language if you don't have sense of this language and its logic, and such sense will appear later, may be in the middle of matrix.
Q: Should I learn dialogues by heart?
A: No, there's no need. You may remember a dialogue while working with it, and later forget it, no one will punish you. Your aim is to work the dialogues over, taking from them all the sounds, words, grammar, to use them as a basis for your language mastery.
Q: Will I speak using the finished phrases from matrix?
A: May be, but not necessary. Speaking is a creative job, and after learning plenty new words and phrases your vocabulary will be quite rich, so finished matrix phrases will be only a model where you'll add or change something, depending on the situation (same goes for the phrases from books and films).
Q: Does the matrix method work for children?
A: No, it doesn't. Minimum age recommended is about 16 years, when one develops will and can make a decision to teach himself a language. The fact that your child has better abilities than an adult usually has, doesn't mean that you should torture him by languages, instead of helping him become a socially developed person. If your family is bilingual or you live abroad, he'll easily master all the languages by socializing. And when he starts learning some language in school, here you may help him: talk to him in this language, find some cartoons or films for children, etc. At least it will be more useful and less harmful than the school system is in most cases. But don't make him listen to dialogues, if he doesn't want to. It won't do any good.
Q: Should I read physical books or e-books?
A: Even LCD screens make eyes tire quicker, than physical books do. So it's very desirable that all your books should be made of paper. If you've downloaded an interesting book you may print it and read. It's just an advice, follow it or not - it's up to you, but mind that reading in foreign language is very difficult by default.
Q: May I begin to read at the stage of matrix? Or watch films?
A: Yes, if you wish, but matrix time shouldn't suffer. Also note that if you learn Brazilian Portuguese, you shouldn't watch films in European Portuguese, until you finish with matrix. Same for Spanish of Spain and Spanish of Latin America, and for any language that has several versions of pronunciation.
Q: How do I learn proper pronunciation of the words and sounds in the matrix dialogues?
A: By scrupulous repeating after the actors, copying all the nuances of what they say. You may also read some theory on phonetics, but it's not necessary. If you don't know about this sound being a "Voiceless alveolo-palatal affricate", but you just pronounce it and do it right, what else matters?
Q: Should I record my voice and compare its graphic to natives'?
A: No. You're not a specialist and can't decide, whether the difference between graphics is normal or not. Moreover, usually your voice in record differs from how you hear it speaking, and it might make strange and unpleasant impression.
Q: Does the matrix method work for hieroglyphic languages?
A: Yes, it does. At the matrix stage, the order will be like this:
-listen,
-listen and read transcripts,
-listen and read hieroglyphs,
-read aloud.
It'll take more time, but these languages always were harder to learn, and will be so. Some hieroglyphs will be learned from matrix, and for further learning you may use mnemonics, writing or whatever you like. Marathon reading won't work here, you'll have to translate each symbol with dictionary. You may also use parallel texts, or texts with simultaneous transcripts and literary translation, or audiobooks and their written versions together. The more ways you try, the sooner will find what's more productive and corresponds to your individual inclinations.
Q: How do I master producing - in other words, speaking and writing in the language?
A: By practice. The only and the right way. You may hire a tutor and retell him what you've read or done today, or find a pen-pal from other country, or visit foreign forums, or go to the country yourself, etc, etc. There's also an effect called a reverse resonance. What does it mean: it's easier to express yourself when you are full with language coming from outside. For example, when you've been immersed in reading and watching for few days, you may feel a desire to speak, and it's very good to use this possibility immediately. But surely you needn't try to express yourself in the very beginning, only at the stage of reading, probably, when you've read ten books or more.
Q: Should I read the dialogue very loud or I may whisper?
A: Very loud. Never afford whispering, for it'll give you an illusion, but not the real speaking skill. Note that your intonation shouldn't suffer, so it won't be shouting, just talking in full voice, maybe declamating. If you master this way of speaking, it will be easy to switch to normal voice, but the other way round will be difficult. It's a hint for those who don't search for easy ways.
Q: How long does it take to work with each dialogue?
A: In the very beginning you'll listen to each dialogue for 2-3 weeks, listen and read with eyes - 10 days, read aloud - a week. Later each stage will be shorter: 3-5 days, may be even less. You can define it yourself:
-Listen until you understand that you've made out every sound of talking;
-Listen with eye following, until you can successfully read along with the actors talking;
-Read aloud, until you pronounce each word as free as you do in your own language.
Listen to your feelings and try to follow these criteria.
Q: Why should I work with dialogues for so long?
A: Because you need to develop basic physical skills, like those for dancing or piano playing, and it takes time. This stage is crucial for your pronunciation. If you shorten it, you may meet difficulties later, and it won't be easy to correct them...
Q: What if I came to reading aloud and can't repeat anything natives say? I say it so poorly and can't help it...
A: After long listening, the dialogue with all its nuances should be imprinted in your mind. If it isn't so, you may return to listening, and then train reading again. Don't try to repeat everything at once. Begin from the most easy pieces (a word, two words) and little by little add the rest. Here you have wide freedom for developing your own tactics.
Q: What should I do, if I don't know how to pronounce unknown words when reading books?
A: You'll learn most of phonetic models from matrix, and it'll let you guess about nearly all words. If you doubt, use dictionary with given transcription. In any case, this fear to read a word incorrectly will seem to you a trifle, once you meet more serious language problems...
Q: Should I limit all the contacts with other methods, if I study by matrix? For example, if I visit language courses at the moment...
A: No, not at all. Courses and other studies may be useful from some point of view. In courses you compete and it additionally stimulates you, and if lessons include talking, it's better still. Also you can compare the system there and the matrix system and decide what's more productive. If you have a tutor, it will be great if you speak to him all the time, and consult him about grammar. But if you write during your studies, it'll be a waste. Take it into account.
Н.Ф. писал(а):We're moving to a new hosting and the move began yesterday. Probably it's the reason the messages disappear. I don't think it would be a good idea to post anything long for a couple of days. I'm sorry.
By the way, NF, thank you very much for the paper book. It was a very nice surprise)) And when you said new hosting - did you really mean it? The site will have another address?
No, Majesty, the address will be the same. We already have that new hosting, but nothing's really changed, right? It's like having a different gas in your car. Before it was regular, now it's, well, also regular, but from another gas station 'round the corner...
Пушистая няшечка писал(а):
You make me feel awfully embarrassed)))))
I don't think to do that.
Пушистая няшечка писал(а):
I want you to post very much, and others too. It's so interesting to have a dialogue, not when it's only you and you...
Thanks.
Yes, of course, you are as usual correct about writing at the forum. I have a strong desire to post much more. But it would be easy to say then to do. I know that I mistake so mush, but it doesn't matter quite so match to me anymore. I try to write correctly without any mistakes but it's impossible on that my state now. Big problem is trying to write out my thoughts. You know, the good language ability is not the correct translation from our mother tongue to English. We need to have a local linguistic mental center in our brain for each language. And this center must manage our "foreign" thoughts without direct contact with our native language mind. So I need to think English and write out a product of that thinking without looking up to a dictionary or checking with grammar rules, it likes a natural speech. It is so hard, because my "foreign" brain activities are so small, naive, silly and may be stupid.
Пушистая няшечка писал(а):
I'll take a risk to have another try, but as no one can guarantee anything now, be ready to everything.)
I am in St. Petersburg now and the city takes my time completely. I can read the posts every evening but have no power to write anything. So, I will return to the forum when I will be at home.
There's no need to be so formal. You may call me "Little Bunch of Fur"...
Н.Ф. писал(а):the address will be the same. We already have that new hosting, but nothing's really changed, right? It's like having a different gas in your car. Before it was regular, now it's, well, also regular, but from another gas station 'round the corner...
Hmm... let it be so. I'm not so good at these hostings, domains, engines and other protocols...
Сергей Кевлар писал(а):I am in St. Petersburg now and the city takes my time completely. I can read the posts every evening but have no power to write anything. So, I will return to the forum when I will be at home.
I've also been to St.-Petersburg one time. To understand this city, one has to be older than me and know history and arts much better than me, - nevertheless I liked it. Will you tell us here what you've seen and what liked most of all?
Последний раз редактировалось Пушистая няшечка2 11 дек 2009, 12:03, всего редактировалось 1 раз.
Кая З писал(а):I have a strong desire to post much more. But it would be easy to say then to do. I know that I mistake so mush, but it doesn't matter quite so match to me anymore. I try to write correctly without any mistakes but it's impossible on that my state now.
You know, I understand all your writings pretty well, and if you sometimes write incorrectly, it doesn't matter. I'm sure I've already made plenty of mistakes, and Matthew or NF may be giggling at them, but so what? The more I practice, the better I am. What I want now is to express my thoughts, to be understood. So I use only those turns of speech I can more or less confidently operate, and don't try to penetrate to the unknown area. When expressing in Russian, I can show my personality much more brightly, but I'm not very confused about this. Remember what was written in the book: "Foreign language seems to be so intractable - but only in the beginning".
Кая З писал(а):Big problem is trying to write out my thoughts. You know, the good language ability is not the correct translation from our mother tongue to English. We need to have a local linguistic mental center in our brain for each language. And this center must manage our "foreign" thoughts without direct contact with our native language mind.
You are spot on! I've just noticed that I don't translate from Russian to English when posting here. Moreover, if I tried, I'd feel discomfort. Trying to render the sense of each phrase in absolutely other words demands crazy much time and energy... Frankly speaking, I like to translate, but do it in real time? In that case I'd write every paragraph for a half of day. So I just think and write it down. And I would advice to everyone learning foreign language to do so.
By the way, if you've read one of the questions above, regarding the reverse resonance, I can tell you, while reading any book, I feel it in full measure. And while talking here, also. Today, in the morning, I had a dream in purest English...
Кая З писал(а):So I need to think English and write out a product of that thinking without looking up to a dictionary or checking with grammar rules, it likes a natural speech. It is so hard, because my "foreign" brain activities are so small, naive, silly and may be stupid.
I'd like to express my opinion on this subject. I think writing is much easier than talking, and while you can use any help, it's good to take this opportunity. I use dictionary, when I don't know some word, and don't think there's anything bad in it. Did you know that every professional translator uses dictionary? (we won't discuss slapdash translations and other phenomena)... Also I use Google, i.e. type there some word combination I doubt how to use, and check how it's usually said by English-speaking folk at different sites. And when I use all this in my own phrases, I remember it without effort.
It would be interesting to know: did you have some knowledge of English before starting learning by matrix? And what was the reason - love to the language or "it's just useful"?
Thanks for the answer. I haven’t any arguments about it, I totally agree with you. About writing I think, it’s useful for me using only the vocabulary and the phrases which I know now, because there’s the strong temptation is translating my Russian into English. Through reading my books I try to memorize some good phrases and after use those in my posts. And of course I use the spellchecker.
What about me? Thanks for your interest my person. As everyone I have my point of view about the Method. Big apologies first, if I’m repeating obvious conclusions. The first, I want to write about comparing the Method with standard learning English methods. I think that depends on what do you want. If you want to meet with many good young people who have strong desire to know English, maybe standard way is preferable, but as I know people have such desire about 2-3 months and after that their wishes were decreasing to nothing. I know one woman who had been learning Spanish about one year total. When I asked her having some Spanish materials (audio, books) then she said that she hasn’t anything. Maybe she had finished perfect courses or so, I don’t know. In my school and high school I’d been learning French during 10 years and I don’t know anything, but I think it’s that because I had not any special wishes. Many years ago, I learned English such standard way during 1-2 months. I went to class room where beautiful teacher (female) was teaching me English and I don’t remember anything expect her super attraction and one day I gave up such learning, though I had desire to study language. After that, during 3-4 months I’d been listening to a good English course and trying to put it to my memory, repeat the lessons aloud myself. Such approach was more effective and it was like the matrix method, but I didn’t know that and gave up it too. All my work life I’ve been needing to read IT’s English special books, MSDN, internet articles about program engineering and so. I thought that I had enough skill about that, but I could not read novels, fiction book and didn’t think that so is possible. That is all my skills before the Matrix method.
As I said before I have some pragmatic reason for learning English. When I stared to use the Matrix method I thought that learning is a challenge. Now, after one year and half from that I’ve understood me loving the language and I think it loves me too. (I feel the last phrase has grammar mistakes but I cannot catch it without using grammar book and it doesn’t matter). Thanks you, especially if you could have read it.
Кая З писал(а):...Now, after one year and half from that I’ve understood me loving the language and I think it loves me too. (I feel the last phrase has grammar mistakes but I cannot catch it without using grammar book and it doesn’t matter). Thanks you, especially if you could have read it.
You mean that after all this time you still love English and English loves you back...
Кая З писал(а):...Now, after one year and half from that I’ve understood me loving the language and I think it loves me too. (I feel the last phrase has grammar mistakes but I cannot catch it without using grammar book and it doesn’t matter). Thanks you, especially if you could have read it.
You mean that after all this time you still love English and English loves you back...
Yes, I understand the error. I wanted to say that after all this time I begin to love English or more correct in this period I have loved it. I heart about rules of the connection simple sentences but I can't use them correct. Thanks.
Кая З писал(а):...Now, after one year and half from that I’ve understood me loving the language and I think it loves me too. (I feel the last phrase has grammar mistakes but I cannot catch it without using grammar book and it doesn’t matter). Thanks you, especially if you could have read it.
You mean that after all this time you still love English and English loves you back...
Yes, I understand the error. I wanted to say that after all this time I begin to love English or more correct in this period I have loved it. I heart about rules of the connection simple sentences but I can't use them correct. Thanks.
No, Kaya, I didn't try to correct any mistakes of yours. It's not my job nor desire. I just wanted to clarify what you meant, and nothing more...
Н.Ф. писал(а):
You mean that after all this time you still love English and English loves you back...
Yes, I understand the error. I wanted to say that after all this time I begin to love English or more correct in this period I have loved it. I heart about rules of the connection simple sentences but I can't use them correct. Thanks.
No, Kaya, I didn't try to correct any mistakes of yours. It's not my job nor desire. I just wanted to clarify what you meant, and nothing more...
I know, I know. You've been doing a very perfect work. It's only my wishes to correct myself. In your book you mention the problems which are unexpected in the beginning and I have them now and will have. Thanks.
Hi again, Kaya,
I would like to say that I like your English. Though there are some incorrectnesses, but your style of writing is already very natural, and you construct your phrases in English way, which is very good. There are some people with high education on English speciality, who construct sentences in absolutely Russian way and, I'm afraid, will do it So, I believe, the way you walk is right. Just give yourself time and don't demand of yourself everything at once.
I don't think it's a good idea to correct your grammar right now. You already have a good sense of grammar and should develop it further, my sense won't be much of use here. But I'd like to make a remark on the mistakes that could be corrected during posting:
Кая З писал(а):Watch the movies and enjoy
Кая З писал(а):some troubles with my posts.
Кая З писал(а):I don’t remember anything except her super attraction
Кая З писал(а):When I started to use the Matrix method
Кая З писал(а):I heard about rules of connecting simple sentences
Expect and except are two different things, and "enjoy" is a verb, not any other part of speech whatsoever. Spellchecker is a nice feature, but it doesn't have a head to think with, unfortunately...
By the way, I also read MSDN, and it's easy, because all the special words are just the same that we use in Russian.) And don't you remember, what was the teaching approach in your courses? Was there concentration on grammar, or talking, or something else? It's just curiosity, for I never attended ones...
Hi, friend! So nice to see you again. Thank you for your good remarks. They encouraged me. The cause of my mistakes was spellchecker , except the first sentence. So I need more writing concentration. What the course are you mentioning? If it is one with the teacher then I remember that we were working with small silly theme dialogs. I can remember like that "Who are that? This is Tom. This is my wife, Mary" and so. And, of course, there were many grammar rules but I liked them, though maybe it seems to you so strange.
mmm. I think I understand what you are trying to say. Grammar is only one of the instruments to help an adult in his language learning, and will it be God's Punishment or paradise, depends on the approach only. I was quite bad in grammar, first, because I found it boring, second, because I couldn't understand how to use these rules and laid all the guilt on myself and my laziness (as it's described in the book, exactly). But on mature reflection I'd say the reason was simple: if you read about the rules of using Perfect, it would be only the half to assimil this rule. Another necessary half is meeting this perfect in different context ten, twenty or much more times. That's the crucial thing school program lacks. And that's why I don't want to correct your mistakes in real time. All will be OK, just be patient.
What is interesting, reading Japanese grammar guides is the greatest pleasure ever. But note that no one makes me do it and no one is going to test me. I just want to clarify to myself how sentences are made there, and what's the strange thing that two cases are possible for one noun, and so on... I feel a real hunger and grammar is my food that I eagerly gulp.))) But I can't imagine writing and using grammar guide at the same time. I believe that someone should use only the constructions he knows and feels, and using unknown ones won't do any good...
And when you said new hosting - did you really mean it? 
The site will have another address?